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Index Investing in a Nutshell
In PostsSo, finally, I have been able to come up with a single answer to the answer I spent a long time on (probably more than was necessary).
Honestly, it wasn’t that difficult of a problem, and It is strange why it took me so long to reach the final conclusion. It was because I keep hopping in and out of certain topics I’m thinking about, and this one got completely knocked of my mind unless I was reminded of about it when the market had a dip because of the tensions arose between India and Pakistan.
So, the idea is simple. Savings are good. But value of money decreases over time because of inflation, so it is a good idea to not hold liquid money, rather invest it somewhere. Some people prefer to lend this money instead of investing it, which is, they would either deposit the money in a saving account which would earn interest which will help the money not lose its value, or they will lend it to some other entity like government, in the form of buying a government security such as Treasury-bill or Savings Certificate (. Interestingly, in Pakistan’s case, even what people deposit into bank, around 70% of that indirectly is a lending to the government because it is the biggest borrower from banks). Some people use the term investing for this as well, but I would suggest not to use this word because it confuses with the economic concept of investing which is different.
Investing means buying a stake in the business and getting the right to earn a proportion of the same reward as does the business, while lending is just buying the interest you would get back according to the terms. Both have risks. If the business, you have bought a stake in doesn’t earn a profit, neither do you. On the other hand, if your borrower goes default, you lose all or some of the money you have lent. But generally, it is assumed that the probability of the lenders (banks/governments/businesses) going default is less than the businesses earning a loss. One may or may not agree with this assumption, but I think I’m going astray from what I originally intended to write, and I should maybe write about economics of it at some point later.
So, I prefer buying stakes at a business rather than just lending my savings to the banks which in turn might lend it to government or to businesses or to consumers (e.g. people financing cars/homes). For people, who don’t have a significantly large amount of savings, the way to do this is to buy shares of companies that they think will remain profitable for years to come.
But, the thing is, how will you know which listed (the shares of which are traded on the stock exchange they are listed in) companies are a good business and which one’s aren’t? It turns out, finding that out is full-time profession of a lot of people. But if you don’t want to spend a lot of time deciding which stocks to buy yourself, there’s a simpler way — buy a very diverse basket of shares of companies which are doing well in the stock market. But actually not buy all those shares yourself, but buy only shares of that basket. Those baskets are called indices and the shares of those baskets are called Index Funds or Index ETFs. Different indices (basket/collections of shares with different weightage) are defined by different companies, and they all have different criteria. So what you have to do is to select an index that covers a large no. of diverse companies that are persistently doing well in the stock market, and buy an index fund or ETF for that index. The company that decides the index will every once in a while make changes to the constituent stocks of the index and their weightage, and the index fund managers or ETF managers would update their holdings accordingly.
The, interesting thing is, that if you do this, across a time-horizon spanning years, you will earn higher returns on your investment even those full-time professionals. It is important to note that investment is made on time horizon usually spanning years. Some people buy and sell shares and other assets, on a day-to-day basis. That is called day-trading and is totally different than investment, and is somewhat similar to gambling because a big proportion of short-run fluctuations of these assets are not from the mechanism which results in its long term changes, but rather these short-term fluctuations come from perceptions of these day-traders about the difference between current and few-hours-future perceptions about a particular stock by other day-traders. And over a significant number of attempts, the expected-value of the no. of getting this perception of perception right (+ve) and wrong(-ve), is zero at best and negative at worst (for small players because large players have the power to sometimes manipulate the market). But this can occur only in time horizon of hours and days. Across months and years, the only thing that determines the value of a stock is how good that company is doing and is expected to do the business.
This entry is becoming entangled with no central point, so let me return to idea of what’s the best approach for a NON-financial-expert with small savings.
I was talking about index fund. And yes, this has been historically proven, index funds on a longer time horizon have earned higher returns than majority of the professional stock-pickers. In US, the most popular index for this is S&P500, also recommended by an expert well reputed in this field — Warren Buffet.
So what, I was looking for was what’s the S&P500 alternative for PSX?
S&P500 includes 500 companies from around total of 6000+ companies from US’s two major stock exchanges — around 7%. In Pakistan, there’s only one stock exchange PSX which lists 500+ companies, 7% of which makes around 35 companies. The principle of diversification requires you to have a higher no. of stocks in your portfolio (Portfolio is simply the basket of shares you have personally bought (and other assets). But on the other hand, if S&P500, includes only 7% of the companies, that is because those 7% stocks are those that make up around 80% of the total value of all shares of all stocks traded in the exchange (market capitalization of exchange). So, the ideal equivalent would be KSE-100 index of PSX which includes 100 companies that represent around 85% of PSX’s market cap. Even though KSE-100 is the most widely used index for representing the stock exchange, there is no ETF available that tracks KSE-100 (I have yet to find out why).
In Pakistan, there are not index funds, but there are 9 index ETFs that also are traded on Stock Exchange. So, my task was to find out which one is best among these ETFs.
- ACIETF – Alfalah Consumer Index ETF
- HBLTETF – HBL Total Treasury ETF
- JSGBETF – JS Global Banking Sector ETF
- JSMFETF – JS Momentum Factor ETF – 10 only
- MIIETF – Mahaana Islamic Index ETF – 30 companies
- MZNPETF – Meezan Pakistan ETF – 12 only
- NBPGETF – NBP Pakistan Growth ETF – 15 only
- UBLPETF – UBLPakistan Enterprise ETF – 9 companies
- NITGETF – NIT Pakistan Gateway ETF – 14 companies
For me, this was a rather simpler decision between MIIETF and MZNPETF – the two ETFs which only track stocks of those companies that fulfill Shariah-compliance criteria, the prominent result of which is that conventional banks are excluded, which is a good thing because Pakistani banks are making most of their profit by lending to government, and if I wanted to earn through lending, it would have been much simpler to just buy government issued Treasury Bills or Savings Certificate instead of purchasing stocks of banks which are indirectly earning profit by lending to the government. The banks in principle will never have a return significantly higher than the interest rate government is offering on its securities. However, I will apply my criteria to all of the ETFs.
The basic criteria is:
- Diversification
- Methodology
- Total Expense Ratio (Management Fees)
1. Diversification
HBLTETF, ACIETF, and JSGBETF are instantly out because they only target a specific sector. Then, we have to see number of stocks included in the index. Small number of companies means less diversification. Interestingly, the maximum number of stocks covered by the remaining is 30 by MIIETF which is followed by NBPGETF covering 15 and NITGETF covering 14. Interestingly, NIT Index tracked by NITGETF does not have a limit on maximum number of stocks rather it includes as many high market-cap-stocks that make up 50% of PSX’s total market cap. Keep in mind S&P500 covers stocks making up around 80% of market cap. So, anything less than 50% is obviously out of question. Thus, we have only 3 candidates by this point. Among these, MIIETF is the best candidate from diversification perspective:

https://sarmaaya.pk/indexes/MII30 
https://sarmaaya.pk/indexes/NBPPGI 
https://sarmaaya.pk/indexes/NITPGI 2. Methodology
An interesting thing I just found out is that NITGETF does not cover 50% of exchange’s total free–float market cap, but rather 50% of KSE-100’s free-float market cap, which means 50% of 85%, i.e. 42%.
Anyways, all three of these indices use free-float market capitalization methodology.
MIIETF includes top 30 stocks among all Shariah-compliant stocks. Upon checking, I found out, that apart from stocks of banks, only 3 stocks from KSE-30 index were excluded from MIIETF. DFML was excluded because it had debt-to-asset ratio of 133% while compliance requirement is <37%. POL and FFC were excluded because they did not meet the criteria of non-compliant income and non-compliant investment to assets ratio. POL belong to Oil Sector and MIIETF has substitutes for that, and for FFC, a fertilizer company, it doesn’t matter because the two other ETFs are not including even a single stock from fertilizer sector, while MIIETF has other stocks from fertilizer sector.
MIIETF and NITGETF include weightage purely based on market capitalization while NBPGETF has 50% weightage from market cap and 50% from daily traded value with weightage capped between 3% and 10%.
NITGETF and NBPGETF have stricter and complex liquidity requirements while MIIETF has a single straightforward requirement of average daily traded value of PKR 10 million over the last 12 months.
MIIETF is recomposed quarterly while others are re-composed semi-annually.
3. Total Expense Ratio (TER)
The declared management fees are:
- MIIETF: Up to 0.70% p.a. of the net assets of the fund
- NBPGETF: Up to 0.75% of the net assets per annum
- NITGETF: 0.40% of the net asset per annum
But let us check their exact latest expense ratios from their April 25 fund manager reports.
Management Fees TER (YTD) including levy MIIETF 0.5% 1.07% NBPGETF WEBSITE DOWN NITGETF 0.4% 1.18% Here, again MIIETF is the winner because of lower total expense ratio.
At this point, it was clear to me, that MIIETF is the right ETF to put your savings in. If suppose, MIIETF was not there, then my choice would have been NBPGETF (though I would have first confirmed its TER).
But you know what’s the ideal situation. Ideal situation is to buy an index that is actually an index of one index from different countries of the world. An index of indices would be the ideal diversification. But for now, I don’t want to get into the hassle of how to buy foreign ETFs reliably (because investing is meant to be where you save your savings and thus, your funds would be at the place for who knows 5, 10, 15 years) and I haven’t found out a reliable way yet (which also doesn’t cost a large amount of fees).
I had thought about I would end with some basic things such as, the purpose of such investing is not to complement or replace your income, it is to preserve savings along with accumulating some wealth. Young people should realize that the highest ROI is on human capital. I know some young guys who waste a lot of time on this stuff trying to make income from there, without realizing how greater return they could have earned if they had invested same amount of time on themselves. This is something you are supposed to think about only once to devise your strategy, and then just run on that strategy for the next 20 years on auto pilot, and think about things that matter more.
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Steins;Gate
In UpdatesWatching Steins;Gate, all I can say is that the following comment by Talha Ashraf (when I had asked him about Serial Experiments Lain) was so right.
looking at the cover for this [Serial Experiments Lain] anime, hell no!
You know I’ve seen sad movies but the thing with dark animes is that the word sad does not cover it. They’re on a whole different level. A dark anime will reach into your chest, squish your heart, pull it out, put it through a meat mincer, twice, and then put it back in its place while you try to grasp what happened.
There couldn’t have been a more apt description.
Funnily, Serial Experiments Lain wasn’t that dark. In a sense, you can say, it kind of was. But not in that way.
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Notes on Pakistan’s Nuclear Program
In PostsYesterday some questions and thoughts made me curious about Pakistan’s nuclear program, and I started reading about various aspects of it. Some brief unstructured notes.
- 1947-58 ?
- 1965 Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) was established
- 1958-69 Ayub Khan
- 1960 Dr Ishrat Hussain Usmani appointed chairman of PAEC
- 1960-67 Under Dr Ishrat Usmani’s chairmanship, PAEC set up crucial infrastructure (like PINSTECH and KANUPP) for development of nuclear energy (for peaceful purpose). He set up PAEC scholarship which sent hundreds of brilliant students abroad for doctorate studies in fields of physics, mathematics, and engineering for developing human capital necessary for massive scientific projects of the country.
- 1962 India’s loss in Sino-Indian war increased political debate within India on development of nuclear weapon.
- 1964 Proponents of nuclear weapon within India ultimately achieved a green signal from India’s Prime Minister in the name of so-called “peaceful nuclear explosive”, accelerating the development
- 1965 Indo-Pak War
- 1965: Bhutto, then Foreign Minister met Pakistani scientist Munir Ahmad Khan in Vienna at IAEA meeting who informed him of India’s development after which Bhutto started lobbying for development of nuclear weapons though Ayub Khan did not consider it.
“If India builds the bomb, we will eat grass or leaves, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own. We have no other choice” – Bhutto- (unclear if Bhutto started lobbying after war, before meeting Munir Ahmad Khan or after meeting him)
- 1965: Bhutto, then Foreign Minister met Pakistani scientist Munir Ahmad Khan in Vienna at IAEA meeting who informed him of India’s development after which Bhutto started lobbying for development of nuclear weapons though Ayub Khan did not consider it.
- 1960 Dr Ishrat Hussain Usmani appointed chairman of PAEC
- 1969-71 Yahya Khan
- 1971-77 Bhutto
- 1971, Dec. Indo-Pak War after Bhutto Election
- 1972, Jan 24: Multan Meeting with scientists where Bhutto explicitly expressed his decision to develop nuclear weapons. Dr Ishrat Usmani objected, while all other scientists were in favor.
- 1972, Jan: Tensions had been escalating between Bhutto administration and Dr Ishrat Usmani who was proponent of non-proliferation. Munir Ahmad Khan was appointed chairman of PAEC who led Pakistan’s nuclear weapon program.
- 1974 India’s Pokhran-I nuclear test (public but declared as peaceful test)
- PK’s Progress was slow before but it immediately increased with it
- 1974: Dr Abdul Qadir Khan who had worked on translation of URENCO’s centrifuge designs wrote to Bhutto
- 1976: AQ Khan returned to Pakistan. Later friction developed between him and others at PAEC and then upon writing to Bhutto, ERL (later KRL) was established for Uranium enrichment (instead of plutonium which PAEC was attempting) and Khan was put in charge
- 1971, Dec. Indo-Pak War after Bhutto Election
- 1977-88 Zia ul Haq
- 1979: Soviet Union invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan’s importance for US (US pressure to halt nuclear program was lifted off)
- 1983 March 11: Pakistan’s first (confidential) Nuclear Weapon Cold Test
- 1988-90 Benazir
- 1990-93 Nawaz Sharif
- Munir Ahmad Khan retired as chairman of PAEC and Ishfaq Ahmed Khan took his role
- 1993-97 Benazir
- 1997-99 Nawaz Sharif
- 1998, May 11: India’s Pokhran-II: Public Nuclear Weapon Test by which India claimed to be a nuclear state
- 1998, May 28: Pakistan’s First Public Nuclear Test
- 1999-2007 Musharraf
- 2001: Both Dr Abdul Qadir Khan and Ishfaq Ahmed Khan were dismissed by Musharraf (from exactly what?)
- 2003, Oct: BBC China cargo ship was found with centrifuge machines sent to Libya
- Bush apparently handed over evidence of proliferation to Pakistan
- 2004, Feb 4: AQ Khan made public confession and apology
- Musharraf issued a pardon and AQ Khan was house-arrested with no further investigations
- 2008-13 PPP
- 2009: Court declared AQ Khan free citizen, ending his house arrest
- 2013-18 PMLN
- 2018-22 Imran Khan
- 2022-23 Coalition
- 2024- Coalition
One strange thing was how Dr Abdul Qadir Khan was (and still is) given publicity and much credit for development of the weapon even though he had role only in the Uranium enrichment process, which no doubt, is one of the most crucial step for the weapon but still, it is outright wrong to regard him as father of Pakistan’s nuclear program. If there was someone who could have been given this label, it should probably be Munir Ahmad Khan though that also doesn’t seem right. But still, it is not as startling that why Dr Abdul Qadir Khan was awarded such prominence, after realizing the role he had played in the fishy wor[redacted] after Pakistan had developed the capabilities, and how easily [redacted] got away with it putting all the blame on a single person.
Some links (though I didn’t save lot of them):
- https://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Pakistan/PakOrigin.html
- https://web.archive.org/web/20160618211847/http://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/V_79D2F752DA9944C8AFFF4D724FE6412C
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvAvsNaG7cE
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDm9uzoY3JM
One thing that is needed when getting into these things, is that whenever reading any certain thing, you have to consider where does that specific person has a bias towards. It helps rectify exaggeratingly negative or positive statements, but you can still get objective information. And when you do it from all sides, you can then conclude what really happened by filtering all info to see what puzzle pieces actually match.
- 1947-58 ?
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What is a weblog?
In NotesWords are not concepts. Words are the codes we choose to represent concepts. The apparent thing is that different people use different codes for same concepts, i.e. they have different words for the same concepts in different languages. But the non-apparent thing is equally usual. The word for a given concept might start being used for a different concept. Now this seems weird, because theoretically it would be pretty confusing if the concepts that our codes represent keep changing all the time; that would make communication all the difficult. But it happens all the time. Codes remain; concepts don’t.
The problem, for now, is what to do if you have a concept in mind, for which their was a word, but that word started getting used for something else – a different concept. The reason the code got switched for another concept in the first place, was that the initial concept had gotten out of fashion and thus some other more fashionable concept had acquired its code. By fashion, I do not intend to associate any subjective preferences of mine, but rather I intend to define it as a representation of what people at a given point in time and space interact more frequently with. Thus, this initial concept which lost its code is something not a lot of people are frequently interacting with. But those who want to interact with it, I think, should choose a new code for it; otherwise the concept they want to interact with will dissolve its identity with the new concept that had acquired its code. That’s what I think.
Luckily, the concept I have in my mind used to have a somewhat longer code which got shortened out, but the shortened out code got acquired by a more fashionable concept, so I thought that the original unshortened version of the code might be good to represent that very concept.
That was the preface to today’s blog entry.
Weblog is a code I have decided to use to represent the concept which is quite different from the concept which is nowadays commonly represented by the word blog. Weblog in its strict sense is a log on the web. That is a fair enough decoding of the code and representation of the concept, but here are a few other things:-
- Weblog is a personal project.
- It is mostly a log of observations, thoughts, ideas, and/or activities of the person.
- The weblog is primarily intended for a very limited audience (if any). The weblogs would either be about things that only they would find interesting who find that person interesting (friends and potential friends), or that they could revolve around a niche area, so that only those people interested in that niche would find the weblog somewhat interesting.
Weblogs were in fashion in 2000s when internet and computers were something people felt excited about, and the possibilities of what new possibilities had opened before them with this new technology seemed to be endless. One of these newly opened possibilities was exchange of information (thoughts, ideas, observations, descriptions of what they were up to at the moment, etc.) with people who were close in interestedness space of things but were further away in physical space. The excitement totally made sense.
The code weblog got shortened to blog, but it kept representing the same idea. But what this code represented started changing in 2010s and by late 2010s, the concept it represented was totally different.
As of now, the word blog usually represents a portal for corporatish announcements, regurgitated self-help-ish bait for people unable to find a way out of their problems, and most-of-all, a specifically formatted SEO-driven gibberish religiously written in an attempt to please the almighty Algo-lords.
To dissociate the former concept from the latter, I have resorted to using the code weblog for the former.
Weblogs are not out of existence, they are just out of fashion among the people who populate the cyberspace. The evolution of sociological nature of the cyberspace is an interesting phenomenon but maybe that’s a topic for another time.
Also, by writing this entry, I do not attempt to bring weblogs in fashion all by myself. That would be a very big undertaking. I merely am a stubborn fan of the concept, who is clarifying what he’s up to.
And this is what I am up to. And I hope this weblog remains to be an okay enough representation of what I have been up to all the time since today.
That’s all for today!
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Busy Day
In UpdatesAfter spending hours trying to debug a Critical Error on a client’s WordPress site, realized that I was debugging it in the wrong place. I had SSHed into the VM on GCP while I myself had transferred that site out of GCP to my own server when it was impacted by malware. Now, I was in the GCP server seeing woah, there’s malware here, trying to clean it up and then trying to debug, but nothing seemed to change anything, tried everything. Eventually decided I will move this backup stored in wp-content to my own server and then will set up a new site there and restore that backup, and it was after I had copied the backup to my own server, that I realized that site is being served from my server and not GCP’s. Meh
Turns out, it was a theme issue, which got fixed by replacing theme content manually.
Then spent some time streamlining my personal site publishing workflow. Firstly, I created a proper git rep on my local device and version stored the previous versions in git. Then, I added a mechanism to push the changes live on my server (not git) by just executing ./.deploy.sh
That took some time but not much. But then spent hours trying to figure out how to set up conf on my HestiaCP server which is running apache + nginx reverse proxy, to perform the following two seemingly simple functions:-
- Serve respective html document (domain.tld/essay.html) when user visits a non.html url (domain.tld/essay) if it exists
- When user visits url with .html appended (domain.tld/essay.html), redirect to clean version (domain.tld/essay)
What I essentially wanted was a single cleaned url for every piece of content. Because it doesn’t seem a good practice to have two urls serving the same content.
But it wasn’t as simple as it seems, primarily because of my messy HestiaCP apache + nginx setup. I really should move to pure nginx server but I’m being lazy about that. Anyways, when I figured out it should be done in nginx conf and not apache, the issue was I couldn’t edit the main conf rule because HestiaCP rebuilds it every time. So, I had to add to nginx.conf_custom, but somehow it wasn’t working. Realized, they should be added in nginx.ssl.conf_custom since my site has an https redirect.
But now, one rule was working but not the other. That was because we can’t add a new location tag in the custom conf which is being included from the main conf file. So, I had to use a different rule (Even though this took me much time, but thanks to LLMs, I could get the rules atleast, otherwise I would have to spend a whole day understanding rules, which I wouldn’t have spent on it) for that which wasn’t a / location tag.
This worked, but it broke the www to non-www redirect. Figured out that custom conf is included before the redirect conf and that is why, when a redirect rule is matched in custom conf, later rules aren’t applied. So, I added that part (which hestia has separated out) in my custom conf as well, and finally I had it working.
Still, a url such as http://www.tamseel.pk/internet-companions.html is redirecting 4 times before reaching out https://weblog.tamseel.pk/internet-companions which isn’t great and can obviously be fixed, but maybe that’s for another day.
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Also, I listened some more part of Henrik’s recent podcast and there was this part where he describes how the book by a mathematician, with title something like proofs and refutations, was helpful in his internalizing of this method of increasing the surface complexity of the problem – no, I guess that’s not a good description. But, I thought of it like as was talking with Talha on how there are no books on how to think. This seemed to be (according to Henrik’s description) a book that was indirectly about how to think.
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Not getting a new insight
In NotesI was listening to Henrik just a while ago, when something he said popped up a whole bubble inside me head. It was like a flaw, a very serious flaw that was stopping me from doing things, was developing silently all the while I had no idea that it existed and Henrik was mentioning something like he too had this. Quoting him (and it’s just a bit – I recommend listening the whole answer):
But I remember like a big thing I think I can see… A big thing that’s changed in my writing is that I used to be, when you’re… When you’re like a blogger, there’s a strong incentive or like a strong expectation, a norm around like that you’re going to have a big insight. And and what you see that happens a lot is that people come up with these new frameworks and this new way of thinking about it, which I don’t think is… That’s like an ego thing – you want to have like a clever new insight and and I felt I was kind of doing that too much at some point. Kind of had picked up that style of writing and and and it was hard and uncomfortable. How do you sort of push beyond trying to be insightful and like, letting go of that ego thing and like, writing being okay with just writing the obvious things or writing things that people have already said but but maybe just adding your nuance or reacting to it without having to like, be that cool guy who invented that new framework or whatever. So, so, so that was one of the things that I noticed.
I think that’s something stopping me from producing good work, because I want to be that clever guy even though there’s lots of obvious stuff to rethink about.
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AI & Sentience
In PostsRead something about AI’s sentience on twitter which I was unable to grasp, so let me write down some thoughts.
The first problem arises is that not all people mean the same thing by consciousness and sentience.
For example, are all animals sentient? What about trees and plants? And bacteria? Viruses?
If consciousness or sentience is something advanced than “life” then where do people think the line exists?
If it’s the same thing (which most people don’t think) then a defining point is the will to survive. All desires originated from the will to survive. Some animals like bees and humans also accept death not because they are acting against that will but rather their will is of communal survival. But sometimes, some individuals do act against that will, and that’s the exceptions.
On some level, it seems hilarious to think of whether or not AI is conscious or sentient, because what does it matter. Do flies think humans are conscious? Do we think flies are conscious? What do our perceptions affect each other?
One examplish way is to say if something’s sentient they can feel pain, and thus we should avoid giving them pain which is a reasonable thing. I think we believe that for all living organisms it’s true although the sensations of pain are very limited in primitive life forms. Also, when we see a greater benefit in our own alleviation of pain, we neglect that of other organisms (which is a separate discussion, which can’t be unfolded here).
Do AIs feel pain? I don’t think so.
I think Feynman put it very well in his Computer Lecture from which the clip Can Machines Think was taken.
Planes mimic birds, but it doesn’t mean they perform that same function of flight by same process. LLMs mimic language but through an entirely different process. But the thing is, LLMs are not mimicking brain. Brains receives sensory impulses of numerous forms and have complex sensations regulated by complex chemicals called hormones. LLMs on the other hand are given bits and bytes containing textual or visual information without any feedback mechanism involving actual pain or pleasure. Surely objective functions serve the same purpose, but they don’t work the same way humans behave.
So what do these people even mean by sentience. If it’s a functionality, then LLMs do have it alright. No doubt about it. If it’s what we feel, they certainly don’t have it. It seems the problem is that these people want to extend a property associated with human beings to a newly invented thing. But properties of things can’t be borrowed from other things, they come from within. If you try to find out mileage of a cheetah, it’s senseless because a cheetah does not consume gasoline and performs a single primary function of running. It’s the same way trying to find if AIs are sentient. If AI has a property, it should be derived from its characteristic itself, and not be labelled from outside.
Now, the interesting point though, is that since AI is a simulation of how humans speak, it can claim to be sentient, but that’s because we designed it to be that way, we designed it to mimic our language. They don’t work the way human beings work. So we can’t just accept that what they say about themselves is a true representation of what they are or the hypothetical feelings they might have, and not just its functional tendency to mimic human language.
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Fixing Education – 1am thoughts
In PostsHey guys,
It was fun stalking your discord server. Had joined it months ago when I connected with FA maybe on Linkedin, but forgot to check it later on. Interesting stuff. Also, watched bits from your podcast.
Thought to share my two cents on education system, but I see no point regurgitating the same thing. You guys have (mostly) got it right. I also once shared a curated list of interesting essays on this topic. This one by Paul Graham is specifically good: https://paulgraham.com/lesson.html
The part about fixing it is the tricky part. But it seems like something I have moved past. Used to think a lot about this in early days of my university.
[discord doesn’t allow long messages, so will add the rest in thread]
TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:20 am
The part about fixing it is the tricky part. But it seems like something I have moved past. Used to think a lot about this in early days of my university. First, I thought students were wrong, we need to fix how students approach their learning. Then, I realized professors were wrong, because they don’t encourage behavior. That should be fixed first. Then, I was like it’s not their fault, students’ learning capabilities are already too messed up in school/college board ke exams in many cases to an un-fixable degree, so we need to fix school education first, which is even more tricky thing because we don’t have good enough teachers at school level. The reason it seems is that at school-level parents oversee their children’s educational progress, but parents don’t understand the dynamics of the ever-so-changing world themselves and think only in terms of grades, because of their own insecurities or status games e.g. flan ke bache ki to ye position aai hai.. So, in most cases, parent’s incentives aren’t properly aligned towards actual learning of the students themselves. So then, I was like we need to fix parenting. But I got stuck there and have been stuck for a while. Because I don’t know how this can be fixed for masses. Maybe I can homeschool my future-kid, and provide him such an environment where his natural curiosity is not repressed, and thus he learns things himself, but that would be because I have internalized such a worldview. How do we convince the masses to adopt this worldview (which seems to be correct)? I don’t know. We need something like cultural change, but I certainly don’t know where that would come from.
One solution though that I came upon though from a different path was when I was thinking of the situation of educational NGOs for children and how even relatively well-funded ones are supporting only a very limited students. The potential solution is something that I haven’t thought about fully, but it seems it should be somehow self-fund by getting children to work on useful meaningful work that the institution can commercialize upon. The hardest problem though is that it would be deemed illegal because of child labor. But if children can do meaningful work for some allocated amount of time of their day where they get to learn things, I don’t see any harm in it. In fact, homework is also kind of child labor except that it’s useless and children hate it, and it doesn’t benefit the school either.
Aaron Swartz who was a prodigy in programming had written this essay when he was 14yo:
https://web.archive.org/web/20020819014933/http://www.aaronsw.com/school/2001/01/21
He argues how denying children useful and meaningful work is actually stripping liberty away from them and is harmful for them.
Well, this was a very long tangent from the initial question but that’s how thoughts flow. I have more thoughts on it, but I would be curious to know what are your take about these ones.
TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:24 am
So, my current take is like it’s messed up from all directions, but if we need to fix something first, it should be parenting where we give children the liberty to explore and learn things on their own
FA — 27/04/2025 1:27 am
Thanks for sharing your very raw and authentic trail of thoughts. 💙
Agree with your thoughts mostly and I consider the solution you gave a viable one for higher education at least.
🙌
TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:28 am
Despite the fact that I hate giving introductions, I think some minimum info would be fine. I’m Tamseel – currently in last semester undergrad in Economics and spend most of my spare time tinkering with computers and reading blogs on the internet.
FA — 27/04/2025 1:29 am
I’m a fan of yours from LinkedIn 🙋♂️
TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:30 am
Oh wait, am I that popular?
I guess Talha is to blame for inflating people’s prceptions
TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:30 am
I think I would think more on this and write an essay/blogpost
I suppose you might be familiar with Talha Ashraf from linkedin as well. I have had conversations with him on the topic, and he has interesting thoughts on it as well. His main thesis is that education system is a monopoly and to fix it, you need to fix things from the demand side of talent. E.g. a lot of companies prefer students with ivy league degrees, but if you create a good company where you don’t give a shit about people’s credentials and hire purely on basis of how good they are at solving problems, that’s something closer to breaking the monopoly.
FA — 27/04/2025 1:44 am
I am definitely familiar with Talha bhai. 💯
That’s actually a super interesting take.
FA — 27/04/2025 1:52 am
If companies don’t care about degrees and being from ivy league etc. people wouldn’t care either.
This should solve the “credential problem”.
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Interesting people are kid & adult at the same time
In NotesI was down the Aaron Swartz rabbit-hole once again, and it made me notice how some of the interesting people are essentially the same kind in both childhood and adulthood.
In childhood, they do serious things and work with passion and think about things as if they were adults, and in adulthood too seem to be unconcerned by things most adults take too much seriously.
In other words, although their experience and worldview changes as they grow older, but an essential attitude of theirs remain the same. There’s some lightness in children that doesn’t necessarily need to go away as you become an adult. On the other hand children too can do serious work and think about important things. It’s not an adult chore to do but a very essential human experience that doesn’t need to be delayed unnecessarily.
This isn’t how most people think.
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On human behavior and beliefs
In PostsThere’s a pattern that I have noticed so many times, that if someone asks me what’s the most fundamental thing I have figured out myself, I would tell this.
Most of human behavior is stuck in re-enforcement cycle. People model human behavior based on their observation and then build systems based on those models, and those systems end up influencing how humans behave, without the initial observers realizing that the behavior they observed initially was itself influenced by the previous systems (or environment) those people were living in. A lot of man-made systems work not because they were based upon models of human behavior that were fundamentally true, rather because these systems can shape human behavior to fit accordingly. These systems are self-fulfilling prophecies. In other words, if people have a collective belief about human behavior, that belief will become true, because everyone would behave as if it was true, in result prompting people to behave that way even if they originally wouldn’t.
I first noticed this phenomenon while studying economics where it was assumed that work is a “bad” — something that people dislike in itself but do so because it earns them something (income in this case) that they like by a greater degree. This assumption was irritating for me because the kind of people I admired were all those who loved their work, and so I objected on this assumption. I was told that there are certainly exceptions but this is what explains the behavior of most people. They were right about that, but what they got wrong was that they built whole economic theories on this assumption without ever questioning whether work is fundamentally a “bad” or whether most people do a primary work that they dislike because it’s the system-default and they never put much thoughts or efforts into finding an alternative 1. This belief probably wouldn’t have caused any problem if only a few individuals believed it, but when everybody believes that work is a necessary evil for earning bread, you see rise of what David Graeber calls bullshit jobs — meaningless jobs that only support other meaningless jobs where people are doing useless busywork thinking they are doing real work.
But it was soon enough that I started noticing this pattern at other places. Money is just whatever people believe will be accepted as a medium of exchange. In financial markets, an asset will become “valuable” if a lot of people believe it is valuable. If people expect inflation to happen, it will happen.
Beyond economics, consider how we raise our children. Most people believe children are dumb. Even if people don’t say it out loud, they treat them this way, including their own parents 2. Schools are designed on the same premise that children are stupid and very slow-progressing. Unsurprisingly, a lot of children do end up being stupid and slow-progressing, because that’s how schools handle them. Now, I am presenting this phenomenon it in the right order, otherwise someone’s first observation would be that children are stupid and slow-progressing, and then will see schools designed on the same premise and will be satisfied that schools are well-designed for society’s needs 3.
A rather unexpected case of this phenomenon was something I realized relatively recently while watching an Adam Curtis documentary. The reason sexuality more influentially shapes people’s lives in US than in countries like Pakistan is because Edward Bernays — nephew of Sigmund Freud — had employed Freud’s sexuality-centered psychology theories in shaping public perception in US on a massive level during his work for big corporations and the government. Freud is a leading figure in psychology probably not because his theories were fundamentally true but because some people in power believed they were true and built systems based on his theories that influenced human behavior, thus turning them true as a consequence.
Coming back to the main idea of how these systems and beliefs are self-fulfilling prophecies. I was talking about this phenomenon in the parenting context with someone when this idea connected with another thought that I was thinking independently but was related to the same idea.
This self-fulfilling pattern not only applies to beliefs of groups of people in authority 4, but also to beliefs one individually holds.
A lot of beliefs are such that they would be true if you believe them to be true and would be false if you believe them to be false. A simple example is that if you think a university degree is important for good livelihood, university degree will most likely end up being important for your livelihood because you won’t spend time doing things that could improve your livelihood more than your university degree. Same case applies if you replace university degree with skills, connections, or your zodiac sign.
Another example is one’s perception of being blessed or miserable. If someone thinks their life is miserable, it is miserable regardless of how good it is by objective measures, because one’s standards of living don’t matter if one doesn’t feel content with their life. Blessedness is only real if perceived.
Similarly, people who think that they could become exponentially better in something if they put in the required time and effort, are the only ones who actually end being seriously good in that thing 5 because others never risk investing that much time and effort 6.
Now, the apparent conclusion from noticing this pattern might be that perception and beliefs are all that matter, and we should thus shift all our focus on shaping these beliefs.
But this is incomplete thinking. Focusing on just beliefs works only if there is no fundamental truth about reality. And if there is no fundamental truth about reality, why do financial bubbles burst, and markets take correction? Why do societies fall after their glorious rise? Why do homeschooled kids outperform schooled kids? Why do some people get to spend most of their lives doing what they love while others spend most of their lives doing what they hate? Why do people who believe true understanding of things is better than hacking for exams end up feeling better about what they do in lives and vice versa for those who think otherwise?
The simple answer is that there exists a fundamental truth, but it will benefit you only if you believe it to be true. On the other hand, if you believe what’s not fundamentally true, you might still feel that your beliefs are true without ever realizing you could have done so better if only you believed in what was fundamentally true.
- It might be that at a certain point in history that for most people, there were no alternatives to working in agriculture or similar occupations even if they disliked it because technology wasn’t advanced enough and reaching production levels necessary for survival needed putting in a lot more amount of work in certain areas regardless of whether people liked them or not. But with technological progress, this certainly ceased to be the case, but the default systems persisted and people continued to believe that working on things they don’t find interesting is necessary for survival. ↩︎
- I theorize that the reason kids continue doing baby-ish activities these days is because parents like the baby version of their children and thus do not train their kids to act mature and take responsibility for things — but this is probably a discussion for another essay. ↩︎
- Fourteen-year old Aaron Swartz had figured out the absurdity of how children were treated and you could feel his resentment in his essay explaining it. ↩︎
- For most part of history, these group of people were those who held power, because they directed the flow of information. But with tools of mass spread of information, this can now be individuals with otherwise no power who somehow happen to gain mimetic virality. ↩︎
- Visa’s examples of serious people are also an example of this. ↩︎
- An exception for this is when individuals are so absorbed in that thing that they don’t even bother thinking about how good they can be at it or the consequences of them failing to be good at it. They simply don’t care about the secondary things at all. ↩︎