Wednesday, April 30, 2025

AI & Sentience

 Read something about AI's sentience on twitter which I was unable to grasp, so let me write down some thoughts.

The first problem arises is that not all people mean the same thing by consciousness and sentience.

For example, are all animals sentient? What about trees and plants? And bacteria? Viruses?

If consciousness or sentience is something advanced than "life" then where do people think the line exists?

If it's the same thing (which most people don't think) then a defining point is the will to survive. All desires originated from the will to survive. Some animals like bees and humans also accept death not because they are acting against that will but rather their will is of communal survival. But sometimes, some individuals do act against that will, and that's the exceptions.

On some level, it seems hilarious to think of whether or not AI is conscious or sentient, because what does it matter. Do flies think humans are conscious? Do we think flies are conscious? What do our perceptions affect each other?

One examplish way is to say if something's sentient they can feel pain, and thus we should avoid giving them pain which is a reasonable thing. I think we believe that for all living organisms it's true although the sensations of pain are very limited in primitive life forms. Also, when we see a greater benefit in our own alleviation of pain, we neglect that of other organisms (which is a separate discussion, which can't be unfolded here).

Do AIs feel pain? I don't think so.

I think Feynman put it very well in his Computer Lecture from which the clip Can Machines Think was taken.

Planes mimic birds, but it doesn't mean they perform that same function of flight by same process. LLMs mimic language but through an entirely different process. But the thing is, LLMs are not mimicking brain. Brains receives sensory impulses of numerous forms and have complex sensations regulated by complex chemicals called hormones. LLMs on the other hand are given bits and bytes containing textual or visual information without any feedback mechanism involving actual pain or pleasure. Surely objective functions serve the same purpose, but they don't work the same way humans behave.

So what do these people even mean by sentience. If it's a functionality, then LLMs do have it alright. No doubt about it. If it's what we feel, they certainly don't have it. It seems the problem is that these people want to extend a property associated with human beings to a newly invented thing. But properties of things can't be borrowed from other things, they come from within. If you try to find out mileage of a cheetah, it's senseless because a cheetah does not consume gasoline and performs a single primary function of running. It's the same way trying to find if AIs are sentient. If AI has a property, it should be derived from its characteristic itself, and not be labelled from outside. 

Now, the interesting point though, is that since AI is a simulation of how humans speak, it can claim to be sentient, but that's because we designed it to be that way, we designed it to mimic our language. They don't work the way human beings work. So we can't just accept that what they say about themselves is a true representation of what they are or the hypothetical feelings they might have, and not just its functional tendency to mimic human language. 

Sunday, April 27, 2025

Fixing Education - 1am thoughts

Hey guys,

It was fun stalking your discord server. Had joined it months ago when I connected with FA maybe on Linkedin, but forgot to check it later on. Interesting stuff. Also, watched bits from your podcast. 

Thought to share my two cents on education system, but I see no point regurgitating the same thing. You guys have (mostly) got it right. I also once shared a curated list of interesting essays on this topic. This one by Paul Graham is specifically good: https://paulgraham.com/lesson.html

The part about fixing it is the tricky part. But it seems like something I have moved past. Used to think a lot about this in early days of my university.

[discord doesn't allow long messages, so will add the rest in thread]

TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:20 am

The part about fixing it is the tricky part. But it seems like something I have moved past. Used to think a lot about this in early days of my university. First, I thought students were wrong, we need to fix how students approach their learning. Then, I realized professors were wrong, because they don't encourage behavior. That should be fixed first. Then, I was like it's not their fault, students' learning capabilities are already too messed up in school/college board ke exams in many cases to an un-fixable degree, so we need to fix school education first, which is even more tricky thing because we don't have good enough teachers at school level. The reason it seems is that at school-level parents oversee their children's educational progress, but parents don't understand the dynamics of the ever-so-changing world themselves and think only in terms of grades, because of their own insecurities or status games e.g. flan ke bache ki to ye position aai hai.. So, in most cases, parent's incentives aren't properly aligned towards actual learning of the students themselves. So then, I was like we need to fix parenting. But I got stuck there and have been stuck for a while. Because I don't know how this can be fixed for masses. Maybe I can homeschool my future-kid, and provide him such an environment where his natural curiosity is not repressed, and thus he learns things himself, but that would be because I have internalized such a worldview. How do we convince the masses to adopt this worldview (which seems to be correct)? I don't know. We need something like cultural change, but I certainly don't know where that would come from.

One solution though that I came upon though from a different path was when I was thinking of the situation of educational NGOs for children and how even relatively well-funded ones are supporting only a very limited students. The potential solution is something that I haven't thought about fully, but it seems it should be somehow self-fund by getting children to work on useful meaningful work that the institution can commercialize upon. The hardest problem though is that it would be deemed illegal because of child labor. But if children can do meaningful work for some allocated amount of time of their day where they get to learn things, I don't see any harm in it. In fact, homework is also kind of child labor except that it's useless and children hate it, and it doesn't benefit the school either.

Aaron Swartz who was a prodigy in programming had written this essay when he was 14yo:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020819014933/http://www.aaronsw.com/school/2001/01/21

He argues how denying children useful and meaningful work is actually stripping liberty away from them and is harmful for them.

Well, this was a very long tangent from the initial question but that's how thoughts flow. I have more thoughts on it, but I would be curious to know what are your take about these ones.

TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:24 am

So, my current take is like it's messed up from all directions, but if we need to fix something first, it should be parenting where we give children the liberty to explore and learn things on their own

FA — 27/04/2025 1:27 am

Thanks for sharing your very raw and authentic trail of thoughts. 💙

Agree with your thoughts mostly and I consider the solution you gave a viable one for higher education at least.

🙌

TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:28 am

Despite the fact that I hate giving introductions, I think some minimum info would be fine. I'm Tamseel - currently in last semester undergrad in Economics and spend most of my spare time tinkering with computers and reading blogs on the internet. 

FA — 27/04/2025 1:29 am

I’m a fan of yours from LinkedIn 🙋‍♂️

TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:30 am

Oh wait, am I that popular?

I guess Talha is to blame for inflating people's prceptions 

TA0 — 27/04/2025 1:30 am

I think I would think more on this and write an essay/blogpost

I suppose you might be familiar with Talha Ashraf from linkedin as well. I have had conversations with him on the topic, and he has interesting thoughts on it as well. His main thesis is that education system is a monopoly and to fix it, you need to fix things from the demand side of talent. E.g. a lot of companies prefer students with ivy league degrees, but if you create a good company where you don't give a shit about people's credentials and hire purely on basis of how good they are at solving problems, that's something closer to breaking the monopoly.

FA — 27/04/2025 1:44 am

I am definitely familiar with Talha bhai. 💯

That’s actually a super interesting take.

FA — 27/04/2025 1:52 am

If companies don’t care about degrees and being from ivy league etc. people wouldn’t care either. 

This should solve the “credential problem”. 

Wednesday, April 23, 2025

Interesting people are kid & adult at the same time

 I was down the Aaron Swartz rabbit-hole once again, and it made me notice how some of the interesting people are essentially the same kind in both childhood and adulthood.

In childhood, they do serious things and work with passion and think about things as if they were adults, and in adulthood too seem to be unconcerned by things most adults take too much seriously.

In other words, although their experience and worldview changes as they grow older, but an essential attitude of theirs remain the same. If it's fine to enjoy yourselves, then it's equally fine in both childhood and adulthood, and if you should be serious about thinking about things and the work you do, that should be equally valid in both cases as well.

This doesn't seem to be how most people behave.

Any thoughts or questions?

Write to me aiktamseel@gmail.com and I will reply ^_^